Because instead of getting distracted by every update, you can look "into" Jaiku when and how you want.
From what I can see with Twitter it distracts you (like when you're sitting down watching some nice TV :P) from what you are doing.
Selective distraction.....
The S60 app (newer version) is great. Gives you loads of functionality (I am finding more and more), so much so, you don't actually have to look at the website at all..
It's from your own backyard (almost:) ).
All of the really cool kids (and me:) ) hang out there...
If you use IM, you can post from there, and get updates to there also.
Great people, great threaded conversation, tasty interface, nice S60 mobile application for jaiku-a-go-go, pretty reliable uptime.... I think it's all been covered before.
From a planning point of view, Jaiku has provided a terrific platform as a backchannel for the likes of PodCamp, BarCamp Galway and other such events, thanks largely in part to the availability of dedicated channels e.g. #cubictelecom (for all cubic related announcements in 140 characters) and the threaded conversations.
Because Jaiku is threaded. I've given up completely trying to follow Twitter. There's no context. Worse: each reply is notified on twitter, whereas on Jaiku you only get notified about the replies to a thread you've contributed to. As a result of this, I can manage to deal with Jaiku notifications on my SMS - and I'm following forty chatty people! ;)
gotta go with @kenmcguire there. Twitter is lots of outbound statements loosely linked by an @ to the person to whom you are speaking. Jaiku creates a conversation.
Alternatively, half of Ireland seem to be on Jaiku so there are bound to be a lot of people you'll already know (except me and I am in Manchester, England!)
I enjoy both - what I really vallue though, is the conversation. For all of it's bells and whistles, I'll forgo Jaiku for Twitter if that's where the meaty convos are. IMHO, conversations are the important part.
@lexia: but when you have to chop through the unconnected stuff, and you get p£$£ed off with the incessant SMS tones.....can you still follow something?
I have to admit Twitter seems like being in a crowded pub, talking to 4-5 different people at different sides....all poking me as they say something!
totally @lexia. How many one-way broken conversations have we had tonight already? We are talkign with more people on this one thread alone than on twitter EVER.
@runningwithbulls good point, but for £5.00 a month, I get unlimited data with three mobile - happy as a pig in sh1t!
I think it had more than it's fair share of Irish traction long before the Google buyout. That's what you get with a good service - a friend tells a friend, who tells a friend, next thing you know, everyone is connecting and sharing thought streams and comments on Jaiku.
agreed, although I think it would have been a different story if scoble had picked up on Jaiku first...although by then, we would all have probably migrated over to twitter ;-)
@kenmcguire True, but we really only represent a small clique. A subset of mblog users. I have friends that swear by Twitter and will stay there. Personally, the lifestreaming annoys me a little, but I can control what I see - so that's cool
Someone mentioned sc081e (I know he ego surfs: I just spell it like that to throw him off the scent). The absence of sc081e and other "a-listers" is also one of jaiku's selling points. Jaiku feels decidedly more European than twitter. That and the fact that this conversation simply could not play out on twitter are two of the key reasons I love jaiku.
totally agree @sxoop! I've got far more out of Jaiku than twitter from a conversation point of view. I mean, look, this post alone has 30 comments to it. Imagine trying to do that in jaiku!
I'm sorry, I don't have anything new to add here. I just wanted to comment that I'm glad to see all this Jaiku love. :) I keep trying to poke my head in on Twitter to keep up with the few people who are holdouts, and though I try to keep giving it a chance, Twitter annoys me with the whole lack of true conversation. Sure, they have that replies tab, but it all depends on people using the @username convention. And even then I never see all of the comments made during a "conversation" on Twitter, so I can't properly follow or participate. Really friggin' annoying.
Jaiku is mostly for geeks; Twitter is geared more towards everyday life stuff. Since I can relate more to "life" that high-priced geek toys, I tend to use Twitter more, in spite of its lack of threadedness. But I like Jaiku too, so I hang out in both. In fact, I got sick of all the desktop Twitter apps and am now using Twitku exclusively. Talk about having your cake and eating it too! lol
twitter is more of a announcing tool than one used for conversation/ replies. i've been trying to compare pownce, jaiku and twitter this past week or so and have come to the following observations: pownce tends to have more indepth conversation, twitter tends to be more passive than active, jaiku is kind of in between.
And yes, jaiku (and pownce) tends to have more of the geeks. Twitter tends to be more relaxed, light hearted and on the go. You'll find the odd/ random txt comments more on twitter because that's basically what it's tailored to do rather than on jaiku/ pownce. I do like pownce better than jaiku though but because they haven't opened their api, i like to use the combination of twitter/ jaiku instead. Although by no way am I abandoning pownce! The fact that this this thread has so many responses just shows how good jaiku is for discussions. (this is the most i've seen in terms of replies in a single jaiku comment)
So in a lot of ways, it is hard to place jaiku, pownce and twitter on the same page as they are used differently. There are individual features within each app that the other doesn't have so its also hard to choose to use one solely. I think i speak for some of the others out there that use it simultaneously.
I guess Jaiku is geeky, but actually when I post stuff like, "Good morning, how are you?", or some random post about what I did at lunch, I never got any responses from Twitter, and only some responses from Pownce. I got the most responses here, which would inevitably devolve into OT conversation... Not so in my experience with Twitter. My normal "this is what's happening in my day" posts got ignored there.
And as far as Pownce goes, I find that there are some in-depth conversations there sometimes, but more likely (at least with the contacts I have), it's general stuff like the question of the day. I don't have a problem with that; it's fun to watch these threads. Also, I really do not have geeky conversations there at all. In fact, when I do give a sort of technical response, that kills the thread. Here it would be different.
Between Pownce and Jaiku, I think the level of conversation depends on your contacts. But as someone mentioned earlier, Twitter just feels like you're talking at people, not with them.
BTW, @thefoo, if you think this thread has a lot of comments, check out the Explore page and the active conversations sidebar. There are (or should be, haven't checked in a while) a few threads there that have hundreds of replies (yes, I said hundreds). :)
in terms of contacts though, i find that there are some pretty high profile guys using twitter, more so than pownce and jaiku but they tend to state something rather than pose a question up for discussion. household names like scoble, m. arrington, chris saad, marshal k etc. use twitter regularly but i notice they are pretty selective in replying too which is understandable... some of them hardly reply. if they have an account on jaiku and pownce, it's because they were testing it and have since abandoned their accounts. I think it's because twitter is a quick and easy way to say something without the hassle of trying to explain yourself and go into in depth discussion.
it's true... you'll almost never get responses from twitter for a "good morning" and you are so right when you say you are talking at people rather than with them.
somehow pownce seems to be lagging behind the other 2 interms of how much people use them too. it may be the way they are real slow with opening up their api and secretive about their backend, instead concentrating on features and usability. can't think of anything else as when it comes down to features, pownce really rocks. i have about 200 people in my contact list and i notice there are a handful that talk everyday, the rest either are inactive or do not have anything to say. so with that, i'll have to agree with you that it depends on your contacts.
i've also found that it is easier getting contacts on twitter and pownce than jaiku. Are people on jaiku more selective in choosing who they follow? Is that the reason why the conversations are more stimulating in jaiku than in twitter and pownce?
i've been on jaiku a little more than a week but it is fast becoming my fav. it's carrying out conversations like this which will keep me coming back to jaiku for more. saying that, i can't help but say twitter is pretty viral and addictive -- no matter how buggy the app is and non-stimulating the comments are ;-).
also --- i think google made the right move with purchasing jaiku as it was the one with the most potential. i believe the longevity of it will surpass that of all its comparable services (even twitter). google's pretty smart and i have not seen a bad business transaction from them yet.
@patphelan Your thread requesting comments should have explained the subtle distinctions between Twitter and Jaiku. Both can coexist. Only one has the architecture to scale beyond casual chat. I think you need to set up smart alerts on both but that's a different challenge. We use Zenark's bot for product monitoring inside three chat zones which free us up for real work.
Hmmm. In rereading my reply, I said that the responses to my, "How's it going?" posts devolved into OT discussions, but I totally forgot to say that I really like that, because it's like normal conversation, where it starts out with one topic and meanders to others. I just feel like my discussions here (and sometimes on Pownce) are actually very friendly.
My tweets back and forth with the few contacts on there who reply back to me are friendly, too, but kind of quippy, and not that much substance. In some cases, it's okay, but when I'm so used to conversations here, tweet exchanges leave me wanting more. Plus it's so frustrating not to be able to reply to someone's old tweet. The @username convention is so limiting.
Anyway... It is interesting sometimes just to lurk on Twitter, watch what the Twitterati are talking about, maybe finagle an invite or something to a new beta, if I can be bothered.
Who do you like to watch on Twitter? It can be a so-called "A-lister", or someone who just has simple, but intriguing things to tweet on a semi-regular basis. If I'm going to pop in there from time to time, it'd be nice to see something from someone other than Scoble, Winer, and the other guys in that group.
@keoladonaghy And you might also say that there's a credible critical mass of Irish on Jaiku that allows a passerby to get a very accurate perspective of the country. I've found Jaiku helpful for restaurant, accommodation and airline seat recommendations and feel I've only scratched the surface of its usefulness in that regard.
wow..alot more comments since I left last night...here goes...
@jezlyn: to me, Twitter seems to be about a) getting lots of a-list people to make you their contact, b) disconnectedness when it comes to chats/discussion c) going to the twitter website.
for me, I dont actually have to go to the Jaiku website as a) Jaiku isn't supposed to be a website application (as a friend rightly said, its a phone app with a website, not the other way around) b) its a great mobile app that I can keep up to date with whereever I am, whenever I want to.
"it's true... you'll almost never get responses from twitter for a "good morning" and you are so right when you say you are talking at people rather than with them."
this is very true..and the reason why I say I think Jaiku is not just for geeks. You say hello, having a bad day so far on Jaiku and people respond and a chat ensues. Thats something to "capture" the non-geeks of the world.
"Are people on jaiku more selective in choosing who they follow? Is that the reason why the conversations are more stimulating in jaiku than in twitter and pownce?"
That could be the reason. Also since not everyone is waiting for the next big thing to be discussed, actual (albeit normal) discussion happens. Like this....Pat asked why should he use Jaiku, and the world jumped in to give reasons.
"i've been on jaiku a little more than a week but it is fast becoming my fav. it's carrying out conversations like this which will keep me coming back to jaiku for more."
For me Jaiku is IRC channels and public IM on my mobile. Sometimes I leave IRC, but I always end up coming back!
It's not just the threaded conversation aspect IMHO, it's the fact that this thread not only has replies from people I follow, but also their friends. You never get that on Twitter, you only see responses from your friends and have to click through to the @username that they have replied to - which doesn't always take you to their relevant tweet!
Jaiku makes it easier for a group of loosely connected people to discuss various topics, this is possibly why it seems more geeky - geeky conversations tend to take more words to explain, therefore Twitter's constant 140-character limit stifles them.
Hmm - @festoon I disagree. Twitter does a simple task. Just send messages. Geeks get the power of Jaiku - re: hooking up feeds for lifestreaming, mobile clients and tuning noise. Geeks are turned on by this. Non-geeks don't really care - if they venture into microblogging - they don't want a 100 ways to streaming there life. They just want to send a message. Twitter is a better fit.
@lexia - twitter is fire-and-forget this-is-what-I'm-doing. jaiku is for conversation. the life-streaming (yuk) is nice for those who like that kind of thing but jaiku's true power is that is enables easy conversation - something which twitter sadly lacks. I'd echo @Festoon's statement. Twitter is for a certain elite group of geeks and marketers who want to broadcast. Look at twitter's new features - they could have made conversation easier but they didn't because geeks are running the show, and their audience is largely made up of geeks who don't really care about conversation.
(This is great! Proper discussion! See..never possible on something as confusin as Twitter)
@lexia: I would disagree with that. (not ragging on your view, just disagreeing..)
Twitter is the a-list laptop party kids...a-lister has coffee, everyone says great idea! a-lister has some beers and seems to rag on some new a-listers startup (an interesting conversation ensues...agreed).
My point is Twitter seems to be about watching the coolkids and reacting.
Jaiku, primarily, is a live addressbook.
Secondly its the life stream thing (as walter said yuk...my photos and blog are here...thats it) for those who want all that jazz (not me).
Thirdly its a discussion app..proper conversation enabler.
If the non-geek is following only their friends (mom/dad/brother/friends, etc) then both applications work as a) the a-list noise on Twitter is not present, and b) the other-person noise is not there are they can tune it out, or choose how they look at Jaiku.
I really gotta agree with Walter:
"they could have made conversation easier but they didn't because geeks are running the show, and their audience is largely made up of geeks who don't really care about conversation."
Maybe Jaiku seems more geeky because they have been bought by Google or something, but I think its for everyone, put as much or as little as you want here.
After nearly 2000 entries on both Twitter and Jaiku, I've my own conclusions.
Twitter is most useful for people who type with a glass of red wine at arm's reach. They often snap off tweets between swigs and forget what they said before the end of the first bottle.
Jaiku is most useful for people who would rather chat while in search of good pints, nice restaurants (often reviewed by LouderVoice) and good tips (free wifi, Moo cards, t-shirts, gig passes).
Of course, your mileage may vary with time zone, nationality, gender and connectivity.
Loving the discussion here.. And that was my original point - discussion is key.. What keeps me on Twitter and Jaiku both is the people, the discussion.. Technology is secondary. I really don't go to either because it's a killer app.. Jaiku does sync nicely into natural conversations - but if the comms are not interesting to me, I'll spend time over on Twitter
@sxoop Saying that "twitter is fire-and-forget this-is-what-I'm-doing" is a low blow. Broadcasting where one is or what they are doing is becoming increasingly important in how people communicate online. Just look at the power of FB status updates...
@sxoop Walter, perhaps all of you contacts are marketeers or elite geeks. They may be running your Twitter show, but they are not running mine. Maybe you haven't found good people to listen to. There's always that 'unfollow' button on a person's profile page. If you don't like the dish, then change the recipe. Again, it's about the people, people.
@runningwithbulls Yes - Bernard. Actual discussion. That's something that really draws people to mblog sites. People create discussion points. If this discussion were on Twitter I'd be over there listening and engaging in it. Of course, it would be difficult to follow. I'll grant you that - but I would still be there as that's at the heart of true socnetting. I'm not trashing Twitter, it's difficult to follow at times, but I can usually follow it.
@runningwithbulls I don't see you disagreement as 'ragging' :) Discussion breeds this sort of chatter. As for 'watching the coolkids and reacting'. I used to subscribe to the coolkids, but I've grown up a little since then and I've now found some very interesting and everyday folks in far-off places to follow on Twitter. People will remember my cries for help at being bombarded with Twitterhoea. :) The point is, that you build yourown socnet experience. Complaining that you are reading about 'coolkids' and 'elite geeks' is without base. You tune into them in the first place. Unfollow. Unsub. Get more fibre in your diet.:)
@topgold Are you going about checking that peeps are drinking wine on Twitter? What you seem to be saying is that people are flippant on Twitter... Does that show more of your discriminations about the way people use broadcasting soc messages than anything else? Saying that Jaiku is better because of "good pints, nice restaurants (often reviewed by LouderVoice) and good tips" is a misnomer. Where do these contributions come from? Not Twitter or Jaiku but from people. @redmum posted her original Moo news on Twitter too, Bernie.
The point is that none of us are experts. We are dipping our toes into social networking comms and having a good time doing it. And we are also meeting lots of interesting and cool people.
We all have our preferences... Some of us like to have long cerebral discussions while others want to give a quick shout-out to their friends. We are living in habitat of social comms.. Trashing one service to praise another ignores the elephant in the room. We are a tiny percentage of web users. Early adopters, if you would. We are learning to stand up and walk in this new world. If we continually look to the technology, without looking at people - then we miss the whole point.
@lexia You should know by now that I cannot finish a week without sharing the joy of a wind-up. Just by mentioning the other services we offer readers an alternative channel. It's also very blinkered of us here not to cite some of the high quailty IRC, IM, and old head mailing lists that have served well through decades now. The emergence of Jaikustan should not dent those communities. Horses for courses and now I'm off to real F2F connections where I'm paid to listen and learn while sharing free culture.
@lexia In my experience, non-tech people find Twitter a confusing and pointless mess to be honest. I've found people 'get' Jaiku much easier - "converse with your friends through your phone"
Good use of Twitter can be demonstrated here: http://twitter.com/kpbsnews My aunt and uncle are currently 2 streets away from the mandatory evacuation zone for one of the big SoCal fires. Using Twitter I can monitor the progress of the fire, get the links for government info, see the maps of what it going on, all without bothering them or tying up their phone line.
Jaiku is perfect for debates / conversations / arguments like this, we could never have done this over on Twitter. I refer to my earlier point, there are people who I do not 'follow' who have posted in this thread, on Twitter I would never have seen their thoughts and responses.
@Festoon - I don't use my phone for either Twitter or Jaiku unless I'm going to an TweetUp or similar (and then just to ensure I can track anyone who is lost or late). I'm 99.9% a web interface user on both - that works for some people, for others they prefer phone.
@lexia when I say geeks are running the twitter show I'm referring to the people who own and operate twitter. I don't subscribe to evan, biz or any of the other twitter people either. They've made it clear they aren't interested in fixing the things that are broken.
Comparing like-for-like, you can trust Jaiku to send you timely text information. You should not let Twitter near your SMS in-box if you have anything close to a social stream of messaging on twitter.com because when the antenna farms get confused, you will get stuck with text sludge that will block your phone for days. This is a mission-essential business communication service that just works on Jaiku. And it works really effectively with private channels.
@Ellybabes I agree with a lot of you say - the services are apples and oranges. What matters is the subject. I rarely use my mobile to update Twitter/Jaiku and as such I need to buy into this. It's still to expensive to be in reach of many occasional users of the service.
@sxoop Fix what's broken? The real problems I have with Twitter is reliability. Although it's been pretty okay lately. I read today that the founders of Twitter have a completely different philosophy to the Jaiku guys. Twitter is about small 140 character messages and that's it. They don't want to move beyond that. I read that Ev worked in Blogger and didn't like the way they piled on more features. He felt that it distract from the main attraction of the service. Just blogging. What you see as a problem, they see as a paradigm.. You've made the switch and you're happy. That's the main thing.. For you using the technology is just as important as the conversations underpining it. I'm just different.. for me content is king.
@Bernie Yes - Jaiku is more timely. Yet another scalability/reliability bone I have to pick with Twitter. But as long as good convos flow, I'm happy. I'm not going to cut out a service I use, just because it's technology is not the best out there. That's what customer loyalty is. That's the killer ingredient that Twitter holds. And I'm not alone. Plenty are staying bi-textual. If Twitter keeps on delivering for my comm needs, I'll keep coming back.
TBH, Bernie - Jaiku is a good service, but saying it's mission critical is a bit too much. The conversation you have on it is mission-critical - not the service. Jyri understands this. Social objects are all about the value of the conversation. Where Jaiku wins is the dependability of the service is there.. You can more readily trust that your conversation will be supported. That's the difference.
@lexia How did you know I bought a Betamax for my Starship Enterprise collection decades ago? And who would have guessed that a simple question from a quiet guy in Cork would have ignited a discussion that now replanted as blog posts. ref: http://slink.in/5506 and http://slink.in/5507
73 comments so far
One cannot learn about the Jaiku, one must experience the Jaiku [or something like that] ;-)
2 years, 2 months ago by EirePreneur
Because instead of getting distracted by every update, you can look "into" Jaiku when and how you want.
From what I can see with Twitter it distracts you (like when you're sitting down watching some nice TV :P) from what you are doing.
Selective distraction.....
The S60 app (newer version) is great. Gives you loads of functionality (I am finding more and more), so much so, you don't actually have to look at the website at all..
It's from your own backyard (almost:) ).
All of the really cool kids (and me:) ) hang out there...
If you use IM, you can post from there, and get updates to there also.
And the name is cool :)
Is that enough?!
2 years, 2 months ago by runningwithbulls
Great people, great threaded conversation, tasty interface, nice S60 mobile application for jaiku-a-go-go, pretty reliable uptime.... I think it's all been covered before.
From a planning point of view, Jaiku has provided a terrific platform as a backchannel for the likes of PodCamp, BarCamp Galway and other such events, thanks largely in part to the availability of dedicated channels e.g. #cubictelecom (for all cubic related announcements in 140 characters) and the threaded conversations.
Immerse yourself for a bit!
2 years, 2 months ago by kenmcguire
Because Jaiku is threaded. I've given up completely trying to follow Twitter. There's no context. Worse: each reply is notified on twitter, whereas on Jaiku you only get notified about the replies to a thread you've contributed to. As a result of this, I can manage to deal with Jaiku notifications on my SMS - and I'm following forty chatty people! ;)
2 years, 2 months ago by conn
gotta go with @kenmcguire there. Twitter is lots of outbound statements loosely linked by an @ to the person to whom you are speaking. Jaiku creates a conversation.
Alternatively, half of Ireland seem to be on Jaiku so there are bound to be a lot of people you'll already know (except me and I am in Manchester, England!)
2 years, 2 months ago by gino128
jaiku on the s60 takes away any fear of daft sms bills too!
2 years, 2 months ago by gino128
I enjoy both - what I really vallue though, is the conversation. For all of it's bells and whistles, I'll forgo Jaiku for Twitter if that's where the meaty convos are. IMHO, conversations are the important part.
2 years, 2 months ago by lexia
@gino: definately lower bills, but don't forget the data costs...but still, yes waay cheaper
2 years, 2 months ago by runningwithbulls
@lexia: but when you have to chop through the unconnected stuff, and you get p£$£ed off with the incessant SMS tones.....can you still follow something?
I have to admit Twitter seems like being in a crowded pub, talking to 4-5 different people at different sides....all poking me as they say something!
2 years, 2 months ago by runningwithbulls
totally @lexia. How many one-way broken conversations have we had tonight already? We are talkign with more people on this one thread alone than on twitter EVER.
@runningwithbulls good point, but for £5.00 a month, I get unlimited data with three mobile - happy as a pig in sh1t!
2 years, 2 months ago by gino128
Jaiku is a lot like good old Usenet. But without the nutters (for now)...
2 years, 2 months ago by Evertb
@gino: yep. agreed. just wanted to make the point! (its not always free!)
2 years, 2 months ago by runningwithbulls
@evert: they are coming....slowly
2 years, 2 months ago by runningwithbulls
totally agree bernard!
2 years, 2 months ago by gino128
@evertb I'm with @runningwiththebulls. Nutters are everywhere.. And I've been here all along :)
2 years, 2 months ago by lexia
@lexia: maybe there should be a #nutters? :P
2 years, 2 months ago by runningwithbulls
erh, erh, erhhhhhhhh...(a la Little Britain!!!)
2 years, 2 months ago by gino128
@runningwiththebulls Not a bad idea.. :) I'd create it myself but I've hit the ceiling with channel creations..
2 years, 2 months ago by lexia
@lexia: really? wow...channelmeister
right ala cama...
2 years, 2 months ago by runningwithbulls
its just nice to see so many people on here now @alexia since the google buy out
2 years, 2 months ago by gino128
see ya bernard!
2 years, 2 months ago by gino128
Jaiku is better for conversations, Twitter is better for one-way talk. (imo)
2 years, 2 months ago by hypocrisy
and oh, you have the life-feed think too ;)
2 years, 2 months ago by hypocrisy
@runningwithbulls Sure anyone can create them... well - prior to the buyout, they could..
@gino128 It's a shame people didn't use the service before... Shame that Jaiku needed to be bought by Goog to gain some traction
2 years, 2 months ago by lexia
I think it had more than it's fair share of Irish traction long before the Google buyout. That's what you get with a good service - a friend tells a friend, who tells a friend, next thing you know, everyone is connecting and sharing thought streams and comments on Jaiku.
2 years, 2 months ago by kenmcguire
agreed, although I think it would have been a different story if scoble had picked up on Jaiku first...although by then, we would all have probably migrated over to twitter ;-)
2 years, 2 months ago by gino128
@kenmcguire True, but we really only represent a small clique. A subset of mblog users. I have friends that swear by Twitter and will stay there. Personally, the lifestreaming annoys me a little, but I can control what I see - so that's cool
2 years, 2 months ago by lexia
@PatPhelan I was a jaiku skeptic at first (skepticism is the default for me) but once I tried it I loved it.
2 years, 2 months ago by sxoop
Someone mentioned sc081e (I know he ego surfs: I just spell it like that to throw him off the scent). The absence of sc081e and other "a-listers" is also one of jaiku's selling points. Jaiku feels decidedly more European than twitter. That and the fact that this conversation simply could not play out on twitter are two of the key reasons I love jaiku.
2 years, 2 months ago by sxoop
totally agree @sxoop! I've got far more out of Jaiku than twitter from a conversation point of view. I mean, look, this post alone has 30 comments to it. Imagine trying to do that in jaiku!
2 years, 2 months ago by gino128
...oops, twitter :-o
2 years, 2 months ago by gino128
I'm sorry, I don't have anything new to add here. I just wanted to comment that I'm glad to see all this Jaiku love. :) I keep trying to poke my head in on Twitter to keep up with the few people who are holdouts, and though I try to keep giving it a chance, Twitter annoys me with the whole lack of true conversation. Sure, they have that replies tab, but it all depends on people using the @username convention. And even then I never see all of the comments made during a "conversation" on Twitter, so I can't properly follow or participate. Really friggin' annoying.
2 years, 2 months ago by jezlyn
Trust the Force, Pat. Let yourself go!
2 years, 2 months ago by mjohnson
Jaiku is mostly for geeks; Twitter is geared more towards everyday life stuff. Since I can relate more to "life" that high-priced geek toys, I tend to use Twitter more, in spite of its lack of threadedness. But I like Jaiku too, so I hang out in both. In fact, I got sick of all the desktop Twitter apps and am now using Twitku exclusively. Talk about having your cake and eating it too! lol
2 years, 2 months ago by tndaisy1960
twitter is more of a announcing tool than one used for conversation/ replies. i've been trying to compare pownce, jaiku and twitter this past week or so and have come to the following observations: pownce tends to have more indepth conversation, twitter tends to be more passive than active, jaiku is kind of in between.
And yes, jaiku (and pownce) tends to have more of the geeks. Twitter tends to be more relaxed, light hearted and on the go. You'll find the odd/ random txt comments more on twitter because that's basically what it's tailored to do rather than on jaiku/ pownce. I do like pownce better than jaiku though but because they haven't opened their api, i like to use the combination of twitter/ jaiku instead. Although by no way am I abandoning pownce! The fact that this this thread has so many responses just shows how good jaiku is for discussions. (this is the most i've seen in terms of replies in a single jaiku comment)
So in a lot of ways, it is hard to place jaiku, pownce and twitter on the same page as they are used differently. There are individual features within each app that the other doesn't have so its also hard to choose to use one solely. I think i speak for some of the others out there that use it simultaneously.
2 years, 2 months ago by thefoo
I guess Jaiku is geeky, but actually when I post stuff like, "Good morning, how are you?", or some random post about what I did at lunch, I never got any responses from Twitter, and only some responses from Pownce. I got the most responses here, which would inevitably devolve into OT conversation... Not so in my experience with Twitter. My normal "this is what's happening in my day" posts got ignored there.
And as far as Pownce goes, I find that there are some in-depth conversations there sometimes, but more likely (at least with the contacts I have), it's general stuff like the question of the day. I don't have a problem with that; it's fun to watch these threads. Also, I really do not have geeky conversations there at all. In fact, when I do give a sort of technical response, that kills the thread. Here it would be different.
Between Pownce and Jaiku, I think the level of conversation depends on your contacts. But as someone mentioned earlier, Twitter just feels like you're talking at people, not with them.
BTW, @thefoo, if you think this thread has a lot of comments, check out the Explore page and the active conversations sidebar. There are (or should be, haven't checked in a while) a few threads there that have hundreds of replies (yes, I said hundreds). :)
2 years, 2 months ago by jezlyn
nicely said @jezlyn.
in terms of contacts though, i find that there are some pretty high profile guys using twitter, more so than pownce and jaiku but they tend to state something rather than pose a question up for discussion. household names like scoble, m. arrington, chris saad, marshal k etc. use twitter regularly but i notice they are pretty selective in replying too which is understandable... some of them hardly reply. if they have an account on jaiku and pownce, it's because they were testing it and have since abandoned their accounts. I think it's because twitter is a quick and easy way to say something without the hassle of trying to explain yourself and go into in depth discussion.
it's true... you'll almost never get responses from twitter for a "good morning" and you are so right when you say you are talking at people rather than with them.
somehow pownce seems to be lagging behind the other 2 interms of how much people use them too. it may be the way they are real slow with opening up their api and secretive about their backend, instead concentrating on features and usability. can't think of anything else as when it comes down to features, pownce really rocks. i have about 200 people in my contact list and i notice there are a handful that talk everyday, the rest either are inactive or do not have anything to say. so with that, i'll have to agree with you that it depends on your contacts.
i've also found that it is easier getting contacts on twitter and pownce than jaiku. Are people on jaiku more selective in choosing who they follow? Is that the reason why the conversations are more stimulating in jaiku than in twitter and pownce?
i've been on jaiku a little more than a week but it is fast becoming my fav. it's carrying out conversations like this which will keep me coming back to jaiku for more. saying that, i can't help but say twitter is pretty viral and addictive -- no matter how buggy the app is and non-stimulating the comments are ;-).
2 years, 2 months ago by thefoo
also --- i think google made the right move with purchasing jaiku as it was the one with the most potential. i believe the longevity of it will surpass that of all its comparable services (even twitter). google's pretty smart and i have not seen a bad business transaction from them yet.
2 years, 2 months ago by thefoo
dodgeball
2 years, 2 months ago by hypocrisy
@patphelan Your thread requesting comments should have explained the subtle distinctions between Twitter and Jaiku. Both can coexist. Only one has the architecture to scale beyond casual chat. I think you need to set up smart alerts on both but that's a different challenge. We use Zenark's bot for product monitoring inside three chat zones which free us up for real work.
2 years, 2 months ago by topgold
Be honest--can you really wade through the noise on Twitter?
2 years, 2 months ago by educast
Thankful to friends in Ireland who sold me on Jaiku. Hardly utter a tweet these days, though still following many thoughtful tweeters.
2 years, 2 months ago by keoladonaghy
Hmmm. In rereading my reply, I said that the responses to my, "How's it going?" posts devolved into OT discussions, but I totally forgot to say that I really like that, because it's like normal conversation, where it starts out with one topic and meanders to others. I just feel like my discussions here (and sometimes on Pownce) are actually very friendly.
My tweets back and forth with the few contacts on there who reply back to me are friendly, too, but kind of quippy, and not that much substance. In some cases, it's okay, but when I'm so used to conversations here, tweet exchanges leave me wanting more. Plus it's so frustrating not to be able to reply to someone's old tweet. The @username convention is so limiting.
Anyway... It is interesting sometimes just to lurk on Twitter, watch what the Twitterati are talking about, maybe finagle an invite or something to a new beta, if I can be bothered.
Who do you like to watch on Twitter? It can be a so-called "A-lister", or someone who just has simple, but intriguing things to tweet on a semi-regular basis. If I'm going to pop in there from time to time, it'd be nice to see something from someone other than Scoble, Winer, and the other guys in that group.
2 years, 2 months ago by jezlyn
@keoladonaghy And you might also say that there's a credible critical mass of Irish on Jaiku that allows a passerby to get a very accurate perspective of the country. I've found Jaiku helpful for restaurant, accommodation and airline seat recommendations and feel I've only scratched the surface of its usefulness in that regard.
2 years, 2 months ago by topgold
@topgold. Agreed. Not to mention how it was the most crucial means of communication for three souls stuck in immigration purgatory at Dublin airport.
2 years, 2 months ago by keoladonaghy
One feature, Pat: conversation tracking.
2 years, 2 months ago by phoneboy
@phoneboy Which can be a bit confusing on Jaiku ;-)
2 years, 2 months ago by hypocrisy
wow..alot more comments since I left last night...here goes...
@jezlyn: to me, Twitter seems to be about a) getting lots of a-list people to make you their contact, b) disconnectedness when it comes to chats/discussion c) going to the twitter website.
for me, I dont actually have to go to the Jaiku website as a) Jaiku isn't supposed to be a website application (as a friend rightly said, its a phone app with a website, not the other way around) b) its a great mobile app that I can keep up to date with whereever I am, whenever I want to.
2 years, 2 months ago by runningwithbulls
@tndaisy1960: i would disagree (I could be completely wrong, its just a feeling I get) that Twitter is for the everyday person and Jaiku is for geeks.
A quick (rough) look through the channels seems to be maybe 50/50 in tech/non-tech discussion.
It would be maybe true that Jaiku is more "mobile" centric, but that would be due to the mobile app being so prevalent in the way to post to Jaiku.
Someone (I think Walter) said above the lack of the A-listers gives it a certain more "reality" feel to it.
I don't think I have posted the contents of my breakfast here (yet!) but I have had some great discussions here so far.
Long may Jaiku continue.
And its also a great excuse for using crazy Finnish phrases :)
Pidä tyyli
2 years, 2 months ago by runningwithbulls
@thefoo
"it's true... you'll almost never get responses from twitter for a "good morning" and you are so right when you say you are talking at people rather than with them."
this is very true..and the reason why I say I think Jaiku is not just for geeks. You say hello, having a bad day so far on Jaiku and people respond and a chat ensues. Thats something to "capture" the non-geeks of the world.
"Are people on jaiku more selective in choosing who they follow? Is that the reason why the conversations are more stimulating in jaiku than in twitter and pownce?"
That could be the reason. Also since not everyone is waiting for the next big thing to be discussed, actual (albeit normal) discussion happens. Like this....Pat asked why should he use Jaiku, and the world jumped in to give reasons.
"i've been on jaiku a little more than a week but it is fast becoming my fav. it's carrying out conversations like this which will keep me coming back to jaiku for more."
For me Jaiku is IRC channels and public IM on my mobile. Sometimes I leave IRC, but I always end up coming back!
Damn, I really have to shorten these comments!
2 years, 2 months ago by runningwithbulls
It's not just the threaded conversation aspect IMHO, it's the fact that this thread not only has replies from people I follow, but also their friends. You never get that on Twitter, you only see responses from your friends and have to click through to the @username that they have replied to - which doesn't always take you to their relevant tweet!
Jaiku makes it easier for a group of loosely connected people to discuss various topics, this is possibly why it seems more geeky - geeky conversations tend to take more words to explain, therefore Twitter's constant 140-character limit stifles them.
2 years, 2 months ago by ellybabes
@PatPhelan bet you never expected this :)
2 years, 2 months ago by eam0
Now try this: search for "tell me how wonderful Jaiku really is" on Google and see where you land. ref: http://slink.in/5467
2 years, 2 months ago by topgold
I am new to Jaiku, just getting the hang of it. But really enjoying getting connected.
2 years, 2 months ago by Sallyanne
This is unbelievable I have just been able to follow this whole thread, thanks for all the amazing advice, you got yourselves a convert.
2 years, 2 months ago by PatPhelan
Ok Pat, you're welcome...you can send the cheque onto each of us at the end of the week :)
Not like we get sign-up fees or anything :P
2 years, 2 months ago by runningwithbulls
Jaiku is for norms, Twitter for geeks, basically.
2 years, 2 months ago by Festoon
You trying to say you're normal Mike? :p @Festoon
2 years, 2 months ago by TanjaR
Hmm - @festoon I disagree. Twitter does a simple task. Just send messages. Geeks get the power of Jaiku - re: hooking up feeds for lifestreaming, mobile clients and tuning noise. Geeks are turned on by this. Non-geeks don't really care - if they venture into microblogging - they don't want a 100 ways to streaming there life. They just want to send a message. Twitter is a better fit.
2 years, 2 months ago by lexia
@lexia - twitter is fire-and-forget this-is-what-I'm-doing. jaiku is for conversation. the life-streaming (yuk) is nice for those who like that kind of thing but jaiku's true power is that is enables easy conversation - something which twitter sadly lacks. I'd echo @Festoon's statement. Twitter is for a certain elite group of geeks and marketers who want to broadcast. Look at twitter's new features - they could have made conversation easier but they didn't because geeks are running the show, and their audience is largely made up of geeks who don't really care about conversation.
2 years, 2 months ago by sxoop
(This is great! Proper discussion! See..never possible on something as confusin as Twitter)
@lexia: I would disagree with that. (not ragging on your view, just disagreeing..)
Twitter is the a-list laptop party kids...a-lister has coffee, everyone says great idea! a-lister has some beers and seems to rag on some new a-listers startup (an interesting conversation ensues...agreed).
My point is Twitter seems to be about watching the coolkids and reacting.
Jaiku, primarily, is a live addressbook. Secondly its the life stream thing (as walter said yuk...my photos and blog are here...thats it) for those who want all that jazz (not me). Thirdly its a discussion app..proper conversation enabler.
If the non-geek is following only their friends (mom/dad/brother/friends, etc) then both applications work as a) the a-list noise on Twitter is not present, and b) the other-person noise is not there are they can tune it out, or choose how they look at Jaiku.
I really gotta agree with Walter:
"they could have made conversation easier but they didn't because geeks are running the show, and their audience is largely made up of geeks who don't really care about conversation."
Maybe Jaiku seems more geeky because they have been bought by Google or something, but I think its for everyone, put as much or as little as you want here.
2 years, 2 months ago by runningwithbulls
After nearly 2000 entries on both Twitter and Jaiku, I've my own conclusions.
Twitter is most useful for people who type with a glass of red wine at arm's reach. They often snap off tweets between swigs and forget what they said before the end of the first bottle.
Jaiku is most useful for people who would rather chat while in search of good pints, nice restaurants (often reviewed by LouderVoice) and good tips (free wifi, Moo cards, t-shirts, gig passes).
Of course, your mileage may vary with time zone, nationality, gender and connectivity.
2 years, 2 months ago by topgold
Loving the discussion here.. And that was my original point - discussion is key.. What keeps me on Twitter and Jaiku both is the people, the discussion.. Technology is secondary. I really don't go to either because it's a killer app.. Jaiku does sync nicely into natural conversations - but if the comms are not interesting to me, I'll spend time over on Twitter
@sxoop Saying that "twitter is fire-and-forget this-is-what-I'm-doing" is a low blow. Broadcasting where one is or what they are doing is becoming increasingly important in how people communicate online. Just look at the power of FB status updates...
@sxoop Walter, perhaps all of you contacts are marketeers or elite geeks. They may be running your Twitter show, but they are not running mine. Maybe you haven't found good people to listen to. There's always that 'unfollow' button on a person's profile page. If you don't like the dish, then change the recipe. Again, it's about the people, people.
@runningwithbulls Yes - Bernard. Actual discussion. That's something that really draws people to mblog sites. People create discussion points. If this discussion were on Twitter I'd be over there listening and engaging in it. Of course, it would be difficult to follow. I'll grant you that - but I would still be there as that's at the heart of true socnetting. I'm not trashing Twitter, it's difficult to follow at times, but I can usually follow it.
@runningwithbulls I don't see you disagreement as 'ragging' :) Discussion breeds this sort of chatter. As for 'watching the coolkids and reacting'. I used to subscribe to the coolkids, but I've grown up a little since then and I've now found some very interesting and everyday folks in far-off places to follow on Twitter. People will remember my cries for help at being bombarded with Twitterhoea. :) The point is, that you build yourown socnet experience. Complaining that you are reading about 'coolkids' and 'elite geeks' is without base. You tune into them in the first place. Unfollow. Unsub. Get more fibre in your diet.:)
@topgold Are you going about checking that peeps are drinking wine on Twitter? What you seem to be saying is that people are flippant on Twitter... Does that show more of your discriminations about the way people use broadcasting soc messages than anything else? Saying that Jaiku is better because of "good pints, nice restaurants (often reviewed by LouderVoice) and good tips" is a misnomer. Where do these contributions come from? Not Twitter or Jaiku but from people. @redmum posted her original Moo news on Twitter too, Bernie.
The point is that none of us are experts. We are dipping our toes into social networking comms and having a good time doing it. And we are also meeting lots of interesting and cool people.
We all have our preferences... Some of us like to have long cerebral discussions while others want to give a quick shout-out to their friends. We are living in habitat of social comms.. Trashing one service to praise another ignores the elephant in the room. We are a tiny percentage of web users. Early adopters, if you would. We are learning to stand up and walk in this new world. If we continually look to the technology, without looking at people - then we miss the whole point.
2 years, 2 months ago by lexia
@lexia You should know by now that I cannot finish a week without sharing the joy of a wind-up. Just by mentioning the other services we offer readers an alternative channel. It's also very blinkered of us here not to cite some of the high quailty IRC, IM, and old head mailing lists that have served well through decades now. The emergence of Jaikustan should not dent those communities. Horses for courses and now I'm off to real F2F connections where I'm paid to listen and learn while sharing free culture.
2 years, 2 months ago by topgold
@lexia In my experience, non-tech people find Twitter a confusing and pointless mess to be honest. I've found people 'get' Jaiku much easier - "converse with your friends through your phone"
2 years, 2 months ago by Festoon
Each one has their own benefits and drawbacks.
Good use of Twitter can be demonstrated here: http://twitter.com/kpbsnews My aunt and uncle are currently 2 streets away from the mandatory evacuation zone for one of the big SoCal fires. Using Twitter I can monitor the progress of the fire, get the links for government info, see the maps of what it going on, all without bothering them or tying up their phone line.
Jaiku is perfect for debates / conversations / arguments like this, we could never have done this over on Twitter. I refer to my earlier point, there are people who I do not 'follow' who have posted in this thread, on Twitter I would never have seen their thoughts and responses.
2 years, 2 months ago by ellybabes
@Festoon - I don't use my phone for either Twitter or Jaiku unless I'm going to an TweetUp or similar (and then just to ensure I can track anyone who is lost or late). I'm 99.9% a web interface user on both - that works for some people, for others they prefer phone.
2 years, 2 months ago by ellybabes
@lexia when I say geeks are running the twitter show I'm referring to the people who own and operate twitter. I don't subscribe to evan, biz or any of the other twitter people either. They've made it clear they aren't interested in fixing the things that are broken.
2 years, 2 months ago by sxoop
Comparing like-for-like, you can trust Jaiku to send you timely text information. You should not let Twitter near your SMS in-box if you have anything close to a social stream of messaging on twitter.com because when the antenna farms get confused, you will get stuck with text sludge that will block your phone for days. This is a mission-essential business communication service that just works on Jaiku. And it works really effectively with private channels.
2 years, 2 months ago by topgold
Guys - I'll msg on this later.. Give a it a bit more time as I twittered http://twitter.com/lexia/statuses/359726432
2 years, 2 months ago by lexia
@Ellybabes I agree with a lot of you say - the services are apples and oranges. What matters is the subject. I rarely use my mobile to update Twitter/Jaiku and as such I need to buy into this. It's still to expensive to be in reach of many occasional users of the service.
@sxoop Fix what's broken? The real problems I have with Twitter is reliability. Although it's been pretty okay lately. I read today that the founders of Twitter have a completely different philosophy to the Jaiku guys. Twitter is about small 140 character messages and that's it. They don't want to move beyond that. I read that Ev worked in Blogger and didn't like the way they piled on more features. He felt that it distract from the main attraction of the service. Just blogging. What you see as a problem, they see as a paradigm.. You've made the switch and you're happy. That's the main thing.. For you using the technology is just as important as the conversations underpining it. I'm just different.. for me content is king.
@Bernie Yes - Jaiku is more timely. Yet another scalability/reliability bone I have to pick with Twitter. But as long as good convos flow, I'm happy. I'm not going to cut out a service I use, just because it's technology is not the best out there. That's what customer loyalty is. That's the killer ingredient that Twitter holds. And I'm not alone. Plenty are staying bi-textual. If Twitter keeps on delivering for my comm needs, I'll keep coming back.
TBH, Bernie - Jaiku is a good service, but saying it's mission critical is a bit too much. The conversation you have on it is mission-critical - not the service. Jyri understands this. Social objects are all about the value of the conversation. Where Jaiku wins is the dependability of the service is there.. You can more readily trust that your conversation will be supported. That's the difference.
2 years, 2 months ago by lexia
I feel like this thread has somehow descended into one of those Star Trek vs Star Wars threads on Usenet :)
2 years, 2 months ago by lexia
@lexia How did you know I bought a Betamax for my Starship Enterprise collection decades ago? And who would have guessed that a simple question from a quiet guy in Cork would have ignited a discussion that now replanted as blog posts. ref: http://slink.in/5506 and http://slink.in/5507
2 years, 2 months ago by topgold